On Manning Up, Part #1

by Frost on October 6, 2011

{ 24 comments… read them below or add one }

JP October 9, 2011 at 9:10 pm

When these pundits say that men should man up, what they are really asking for is to be saved from themselves.

So many decades of men being told that they are worthless, extraneous, and that women are superior to them, and now all of a sudden they are being to asked to buy into the societal Ponzi after the social contract has been sundered? Truly, it is to laugh.

Rowan October 7, 2011 at 6:28 pm

When you get your online businesses off the ground Frost, you may find that having a partner who has ‘Manned Up’ is very valuable. The software I’m working on right now has to have 99% uptime, if it’s down for more than 15 minutes I’ll probably lose half my customers. As someone who likes to take week long hikes through the wilderness this constraint would really deprive me of the lifestyle I enjoy.

As if by magic an old friend contacts me, he just started doing freelance web design for a living, has met a nice girl and he’s going to let her move in with him instead of going traveling. Suffice to say he’s really keen to manage my software and servers. I own the business, pay him a salary, update the software, travel around making customers and he is the rock who keeps everything running, handles all the boring little details, those annoying customer support issues and wakes up at 3am so I don’t have to. Best of all he’s overjoyed at the idea.

It takes all sorts.

Capsaicin October 7, 2011 at 1:06 pm


Good points.

While I strongly agree with Frost’s ethos here, as you note, things don’t necessarily turn out the way we envision them.

In speaking out and destroying the pretty lies of feminism and the conventional way of thinking, I think the manosphere falls for its own set pretty lies at times.

We can choose the life that Frost advocates, which definitely beats the mass alternative, but we should be honest with ourselves of the possible results later in life, of which you make clear.

Rob October 7, 2011 at 3:29 pm

“In speaking out and destroying the pretty lies of feminism and the conventional way of thinking, I think the manosphere falls for its own set pretty lies at times.”

No kidding. No collection of people are immune from group-think or following the lead of demagogues.

Stryker October 7, 2011 at 12:17 pm

A lot of what you say is true, however, it is not the entire story because in your youth you are not able to comprehend the other end of life.
I am old enough now to see many arrive at their middle or ending years with no family, no friends, no meaningful interaction with other human beings, financially broke, and/or in poor health.
You can tell yourself that you will still be harpooning all the hot pussy you want into your 40’s, 50’s, and 60’s , and that you will be hanging with a close knit group of buddies into your old age. Yeah, good luck with that. That’s not how it works out. Unless you are one of the .001% that has the skill, drive, health, and just plain luck to live a life of adventure, sex and have the financial wherewithall to sustain that kind of lifestyle, the last half of your life is likely to be devoid of what you idolize right now. Eventually you age enough to become unattractive to those whom you are attracted to. Game and money will only go so far. (If you have any money- abandoning a good job as our culture rushes headlong into the maw of the greatest economic depression anyone has ever seen does not bode well, despite the saturation of the blogosphere with advice about ditching your job and ‘following/monetizing your passions.’ )
Financial necessity forces people into whatever safe harbor they can find. Loneliness, and a lack of purpose and continuity cause many to seek mates of long term companions. Even if you can hold out on this , most of your friends cannot.
Hopefully your health remains good.

Furthermore, some ugly change is headed our way economically and socially, It remains to be seen how this younger generation, self centered, adverse to sacrifice,
without the patience or toughness to deal with long term stress or misery, will fare.

Family has and always will be the best long term survival strategy. No one said it is easy or always pleasant. In this culture we have tacked some extra penalties to it, in an effort to discourage people like yourself from accomplishing it. It requires a degree of wisdom and hard work that fewer and fewer are willing to attempt.

My comments will probably be ignored, and I will be castigated, nevertheless, I thought you should hear another perspective.

davver October 7, 2011 at 2:23 pm

That may all be true, but when your young, healthy, and single its the time to find out if you can make it big. If your as gifted as frost an upper middle class office job will be waiting for your at 30 if you don’t make it. Trust me, I had to start over once and for those at the right end of the bell curve getting back to financial security isn’t that hard.

Stryker October 7, 2011 at 2:53 pm

True, but the economy that you started over in was a lot better than where we are now, and light years ahead of where we are headed.

Every man has to do what he must do, and now, when you are young, healthy and single is the time to try to make it big, as you have said. However, if you are going to do that, at least do it with both eyes open and be aware of the possible consequences, and take with a grain of salt all these bloggers urging you to throw caution to the wind while making money on the internet and living a mobile lifestyle.

davver October 7, 2011 at 3:15 pm

Eh, its not as hard as you think. Its hard for average people. If your genuinly on the right edge of the bell curve it really isn’t that hard.

Stryker October 7, 2011 at 3:21 pm

We’ll see….

davver October 7, 2011 at 10:00 am


While I get the overall point, this focus on technology is silly. Don read a paper on the way to work. People today use iphones or laptops or whatever. I don’t see the difference. There is nothing manly about being technologically ignorant. Or do you not like reading on the internet like you are here? Would Don Draper ever be caught dead on the internet? That thing is for nerds.

Capsaicin October 7, 2011 at 2:26 am

Here’s another take on the “man up” theme, from a British woman.

It’s actually not a bad article, and she makes some good points about men acting childish and feminine these days. It connects with the best parts of Bennet’s article–although both of them ignore the other side of all this, namely, the failure of so many women to act like women.

A snippet:

“I recently shared a train carriage with a man who spent the entire 25-minute journey jangling an iPhone in the face of his bemused-looking baby. It wasn’t hard to see who was having more fun. Who’s the daddy?


Just look at the success of the U.S. television series Mad Men. Aside from the sharp scripts and the faultless production values, what made it such a phenomenon?
Dare I suggest it was largely because it recalled a time when we still acknowledged a gender divide? When women were women, and men were men.

Call me old-fashioned, but can you imagine Don Draper on his daily commute, earphones plugged in, knees akimbo, playing virtual football on a Smartphone, pointedly ignoring the old lady teetering on a stick in front of him? ”


John October 7, 2011 at 12:40 am

Why the fuck should I marry the women who treated me lower than shit when I was young when I could have their daughters.

The Private Man October 6, 2011 at 8:15 pm

I too shall Man Up®.

I’ll find an overweight middle-aged divorced woman with short hair, kankles, and young adult children living at home. She will become my bride in a modest ceremony where she won’t wear white.

I will move out of my bungalow-style apartment down by the beach and move to a modest, if a bit shabby, house in the suburbs. My new wife (3rd time’s a charm!) will quickly enter menopause and her personality will change radically requiring strong medication. My libido will vanish as did my motorcycle when I was dating her. My beloved dog will die mysteriously but my new wife had always hated my dog.

I will cease all Manosphere activities including some potentially lucrative projects so I can concentrate on getting a modest middle management career in a large technology firm with a history of lay-offs. I will have a calendar on my computer that counts the days until I can collect Social Security and be eligible for Medicare.

My wife’s adult kids will resent me even though my salary and then Social Security helps them out financially. My wife will grow weary of me and spend most of her time watching reality TV and ignoring her diabetes. I will grow weary of my life. But hey, it’s all part of the Man Up® process.

Capsaicin October 7, 2011 at 1:51 am

Private Man,

Excellent addition to this topic.

Love it.

Horrifying portrait. Unbelievable to me how many average American men think that lifestyle is “just the way it is.”

The walking dead.

NomadicNeill October 6, 2011 at 4:40 pm

I feel no sense of obligation to a society that continually misleads me (whether it’s intentionally or not) about so many different things: health and nutrition, male-female relationships, how the economy works, wars etc. I could go on and on.

It’s like Neo feeling obligated to the Matrix because they kept him alive in a vat for x number of years.

Oh, thanks for trying to keep me ignorant about pretty much everything that!


Rob October 6, 2011 at 4:04 pm

Exciting news about the move, Frost.

You said a few more men become willing to move to the Red Pill. While this is undoubtedly true, it’s probably also true that these men, as a percentage of the whole, are actually on the decline. If you figure the population continues to grow, those willing to take on your lifestyle have to grow even faster just to keep up with that growth.

You then said: “The number of men willing to take on the necessary burdens of keeping our society afloat is decreasing, and the weight on the rest is getting heavier.”

This also seems true. However, only a small percentage of this group is capable, willing, or aware enough to live your lifestyle. The rest are simply dullards and dead weight. So there are two classes of men unwilling to man up: those with the ability to do what you do and those who just play video games. The former camp is significantly smaller than the latter camp.

My point is only this: no one should get their hopes up for some kind of uprising of Red Pillers. Accept your alienation from that world and seek companionship where it comes.

Chico October 6, 2011 at 3:31 pm

There’s also the matter of wanting to have a life while you’re still young enough to enjoy it. If you’re lucky, you’ll start making a liveable salary in your mid-20s. Who wants to grind their way through 20 years of miserable schooling only to jump right into a miserable desk job and a family that takes up every other second of your time and health? Not me.

They like to say we should save up for retirement. Fuck that shit. My parents aren’t anywhere near retirement and they already lost the energy they once had. Nah, life is worth living when you’re young. Even moreso when you can afford to live independently (my current challenge).

I don’t plan on having kids until I’m at least 30. If I find a woman who is good enough to commit to before then, she’ll have to know the score. I need to live first. Marrying younger is your best bet. Women start getting baby-crazy from their mid-20s onwards.

Carmo October 6, 2011 at 12:55 pm

Of course they are asking us to man up, who else is going to pay for the welfare state and all the entitlements women receive today. Funny how it is apparently the man’s fault that there are more children growing up without a man in the house but does not mention the fact that they are forbidden by court mandate to only see the child every other weekend if at all.

Scott Carmichael October 6, 2011 at 12:37 pm

“The number of men willing to take on the necessary burdens of keeping our society afloat is decreasing, and the weight on the rest is getting heavier.”

So the answer is to let our world burn? Take what you can for yourself and run?

The ways of our grandparents are what built this society you want to exploit. The Boomers were the ones that tore it all down with feminism, affirmative action (instead of merit) and other bullshit.

Here’s the good news: women are followers. When you start teaching them that feminism is bullshit just by leading; they quickly fall in to place. It takes a little time with some, but most women are more realistic about life than they project.

If you learn how to be a man in ways other than working 70 hours a week, when being a man pervades every aspect of your existence, it gets a lot better. Easier.

Legion October 7, 2011 at 5:58 pm

“So the answer is to let our world burn? ” YES YES YES let it burn!

Men are second class citizens in the eyes of the court losing their families, retirement, freedom and dignity often on the basis of a mere accusation delivered by a female whose vagina allegedly renders her incapable of deceit.

Women are whine about the tradition of marriage but have cast off everything that makes it traditional. Gone is the “white” dress. Now a man must contend with her double digit notch counts praying she wasn’t the college gang-bang slut with a latent STD. She’s typically a fat, entitled Oprah/Bachelor/Sex in the City watching disaster who will divorce her husband after boredom sets in.

Our political system places monetary incentives on corruption, is quickly paving the road to fascism. Wars are being fought on the pretense of morality. Our leaders serve corporate/financial interests instead of the constituents. Our nations future – our children’s future – is being mortgaged before our eyes as we head into the brave new world of serfdom.

This society is warped and in need of a flush.

arthad October 6, 2011 at 12:36 pm

You appear to have missed Bennett’s point. He writes, “We may need to say to a number of our twenty-something men, ‘Get off the video games five hours a day, get yourself together, get a challenging job and get married.'”

He is not advocating that men everywhere take pride in having “dull office jobs.” In fact, I think he would be an avid supporter of men taking initiative to get ahead in life by doing some of the things you mention: “saving money to travel, starting online businesses, and negotiating remote work agreements.” I don’t think Bennett cares at all whether you have a mortgage or student loans; in fact, I think he would say that if you can avoid either or both, great. Also, I’m sure he hates the “pop culture that denigrates our masculinity, and [. . .] a mainstream media obsessed with the minutiae of politics and celebrity gossip” just as much as you do.

Where he does disagree with you, I think, is in your rejection of “sacrifice” as an important part of living in a society. There is such a thing as the common good. To take a very common example, parenting requires doing many things you would rather not do. It also requires not doing things you would rather do. No one _wants_ to change diapers. And yes, if you have children, you’ll have less money to spend on yourself. But that’s not the end of the world. Your own autonomy is NOT the highest value in the world. Part of what makes a man a man is being willing to give up his own pleasure for the good of other people — his girlfriend/wife, his children, his friends. Yet for that reason, should everyone decide not to be parents? Obviously not, unless you want society to implode.

I understand that you didn’t say “no one” should be parents, or get married. But you offer no principled criterion to distinguish people who should be from people who shouldn’t be. I submit that men who want to take responsibility for themselves and for society should not shirk commitment. They should not trade the good of society and of posterity for their own short-term, ultimately meaningless pleasures.

I’m all in favor of doing your homework, becoming a better man, and kicking ass at life. I just think you can do that without being a playboy who cares only for himself.

flyfreshandyoung October 6, 2011 at 1:14 pm

The “common good”, in the form of society, does not give a shit about you. One step out of line, and you get smacked down by the courts through divorce rape and the child support racket. It’s not that some of us don’t understand the need to sacrifice for “common good”, it’s that it has become a question of how much do you want to sacrifice. How much of your life do you want to spend doing stupid shit like changing diapers, or castrating yourself in the corporate world for a chance at advancement, when the only reward at the end of it is the possibility of not getting your hard work stripped of you or of maybe having a shred of your soul left over? For those who follow the path of the old ways, all society does is take take take, bending you over and milking every possible use for you, then discarding you like a cheap whore.

The sacrifices now outweigh the benefits, and no amount of wishful thinking or nostalgia for old times will change that.

Incentives matter.

Looks like we’re on the same page, Frost.


Bronan the Barbarian! October 6, 2011 at 11:49 am

Frost, fortunately you’re wrong here. A lot of guys I know are ready to Man Up® and trade in the travel/casual sex lifestyle for stability and commitment. For instance, my roommate has been dating a very nice single mother. She’s a complete joy, bringing such lively conversation topics to the table such as:

– Childcare
– Her sub-par place of employment
– Child anecdotes
– Coworker anecdotes
– That’s about it

Plus she’s only slightly overweight! Quite a catch, if you ask me. My roommate’s example (and jealousy/disgust with my fun, party lifestyle) has inspired me to Man Up® as well. I’m currently on the hunt for a long-term partner that will accept my love and devotion, as well as most of my money/possessions. Hopefully I’m worthy of her when I find her!

Gmac October 6, 2011 at 12:07 pm

Sorry Frost, I’m going to have to agree with BroMan on this one. Game is dead, it’s all about compliment & cuddle tactics now. Guys need to realize all of these sexually repressed… err I mean sexually progressive women need some lovin’ too.

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