Cynics are Deluded Too

by Frost on August 24, 2011

{ 17 comments… read them below or add one }

Roger August 29, 2011 at 4:00 pm


Of course dude. The whole thing is to worship women while pretending not to. You can only fool yourself in such a game. Even the “true” ones judge themselves by women they get. Not on achievement or maintaining the civilization their ancestors (foolishly) entrusted them with, but by snatch.

Chemical O August 28, 2011 at 1:47 pm

Well spoken Sir.

Greg August 27, 2011 at 11:46 pm

*…and if they haven’t started to work on becoming the sort of man that women are attracted to, they at least know they should……*

Way to pedestalize women. Never has the phrase *PUA =AFC 2.0* rang truer – you have not travelled very far from the nice guy mindset as you think. You are still trying to please

Rob August 26, 2011 at 7:07 pm

It’s a fine line between cynicism and skepticism. A fine line that can have serious consequences if you are on the wrong side of it.

steve August 25, 2011 at 1:57 pm

guys who are not nice can experience similar problems. i know this first hand.

baz August 25, 2011 at 9:23 am

But the thing is, for most women, certainly in their younger years, having (at least some) options is the norm, it’s generally not something they’ve had to work to achieve;
whilst for men (apart from the handful of men who are naturally alpha), it’s not the norm, and to become a man with options takes concerted effort, focus and application and often considerable time

NMH August 25, 2011 at 10:00 am

I dont think that is quite true. I agree that non-alpha men (like me) have little choice (certainly compared to the alpha’s) but this applies as well to some women out there, namely, the fat chick omega females. I know a number of these girls who would love to be in an LTR but can’t get a guy interested, at least for an LTR.

I think some men can be accused of having apex fallacy; thinking that all women have a lot of options like the hotties. If you are a fat chick, the options drop dramatically as you age.

Frost August 25, 2011 at 11:16 am

Not alpha?

So get alpha! You can make that choice.

Sure, some women have more options than others, but the shape of the curve over their lives is the same.

Fat 21 year old women can get palatable guys to sleep with them, by trolling for stumbling men who’ve struck out at last call, and they could have relationships/husbands if they hopped on plenty of fish and search for hobbies > warcraft. In ten years, they will have neither.

tenthring August 27, 2011 at 4:03 pm

“So get alpha! You can make that choice.”

Your a healthy young man with far above average genes who grew up in good circumstances. We can all do things to improve, but if you think true alphadom can be achieved by the bottom half, or even probably bottom 75% of the bell curve I think your mistaken.

pechorin2 August 24, 2011 at 9:46 pm

I’m happy to see guys writing about game who are still serious about committed relationships, both terms of personal satisfaction and in terms of perpetuating our civilization. It’s absolutely true that being truly in love beats being single. I’ve been in love twice in my life, with girls I still think are wonderful, and I wouldn’t trade that for anything.

One of those relationships ended because of my betaness. Since then I’ve gotten dramatically better with women. Even though I date and sleep with far more girls now than I could before, I haven’t fallen in love since I got out of college (I’m around your age). It’s kind of depressing to think that my life is made up of many relationships, none of which mean much of anything – no matter how much I enjoy keeping things casual, I want to build something that has meaning in my personal life as well as my work. But the girl has to be right.

NMH August 25, 2011 at 7:49 am

Its funny that our esteemed blogger pushed the idea of a man having options yet other bloggers such as Darlock condemn women who become addicted to choice, in other words, having options. Inevitably, sleeping with a lot of women and having too many options will probably make you too picky with women and not allow you to pair bond (fall in love) with a suitable mate, and push forward civilization. The criticisms that the manosphere make toward women can be made toward men here as well, and whatever context its in will lead to choice addiction and never being satisfied.

Frost August 25, 2011 at 11:13 am

Fair points. There is definitely an incongruence between my hedonistic devil-may-care-ness and my stalwart defender of western civilization persona (which I hardly even reveal outside of the comments).

One point I’ll make is that my advocacy of male options and female commitment doesn’t depend on moral judgements. I don’t condemn sluts on moral grounds, for example. I just say: Ladies, there are consequences to your actions that you may not have fully thought out. One Hooking Up Smart commenter on my guest post was a 30 y/o woman who had no intention of ever marrying or having a family. To her I say, slut it up to your heart’s content. To the 95% of women who have different goals, sleeping around ahs consequences.

For men on the other hand, sleeping around today will not hurt your prospects later in life. a 35 y/o man with a triple digit notch count and the game that comes with it is desirable.

I’ll also argue that a promiscuous man doesn’t harm his ability to fall in love and settle down, because unlike a promiscuous woman, he’s not sleeping with women whom he would rather commit to then the woman he eventually does.

A woman who spends her best years sleeping around, will get used to a much higher standard of man than she will eventually settle down with. She will never truly fall in love with her beta husband, who has settled for the used-up remains of her 35-year old, much less hot self.

A 35 year old man, say Frost circa 2021, will have steadily increased his value over his entire life. Also, he has spent his years banging fun girls, but not girls he would deign to commit to. The wife he winds up with really will be the best woman he has ever found. And if he’s smart and picks a young, trad-minded wife, he’ll be the best guy she’s ever been with – hence, a stable, lifelong marriage.

Frost August 25, 2011 at 11:02 am

Every man has a different appetite for sexual variety Vs commitment. Some really won’t ever fall in love, or want to. Others won’t find THAT much satisfaction from casual sex.

If you see yourself more in the latter, I suggest spending more time and effort searching for quality girls. I very much enjoy being single, so I generally just sleep with whoever and wait for random chance to bring a keeper my way. But I only do this because I don’t mind the waiting. If I did, and I suspect one day in my mid-thrities I will, I’ll just re-balance my efforts so I’m spending more time searching and less time thoughtlessly banging.

(r)Evoluzione August 24, 2011 at 7:23 pm

The cynicism that comes with heartbreak is a necessary component of learning & growth, but just like inflammation, it’s only pathological when it remains. And also like inflammation, it’s the first stage in healing.

I was looking back on this phenomenon in my life this morning. I’ve had the good fortune to have been in love–the head-over-heels love, three times. In the first two, somehow I was able to keep my alpha bearings and maintain my composure. Those relationships went well and it was my choice when to end them, when they had run out of steam. The last one, I had fully abandoned myself to, and allowed myself, in the heat of many moments, to say things like “I’m yours, completely.” I allowed myself to be swallowed by that love, and as you can expect from such massive beta-ization, love chewed me up & spat me out. This was the genesis of truly learning game. That was 3 years ago, and while I currently enjoy a small harem of wonderful, sexy, amazing women, I don’t have that heart connection. I realize it’s missing, and I realize that deep vulnerability, from a true place of strength, is the gateway to making a deep connection with someone on that level. And I’m in complete agreement, I will give up all the rest when I meet that one who makes me feel it’s worth it. I know in my heart and in my gut, that it’s possible to be the best man I can be, an articulate leader, an unflappable exemplar of masculinity, and be deeply in love with a woman who reciprocates on a deep level. In fact, I believe that’s what demanded of us, should we desire to bring the greatest gifts we have to bear in the world.

Frost August 25, 2011 at 10:57 am

Good analogy. Your first two relationships are the kind that men should aspire to, in my opinion, but as for the third… Hey, sounds like it was an experience, right? You’re probably better and wiser for it, even if it caused you a lot of pain and unproductive behaviour at the time.

(r)Evoluzione August 26, 2011 at 11:29 am

Indeed–that last relationship was a full-ride scholarship through the Ghetto University, School of Hard Knocks. She put me through the ringer, with my unmitigated assistance. We were both in grad school, she was a high-society girl used to dating C-level executives, and I was a broke ass-grad student, who happened to have a little (key word, little) game and a bit of swagger. I pulled her in, but couldn’t keep her long term. At one point, we were engaged to be married, but it fell apart.. Guess what happened, Frost. I’ll give you three guesses, and the first two don’t count.
In retrospect, without a trace of self-deprecation, I can say I was hitting out of my league. She was a hard 9, and I hadn’t yet earned that rank. I fell for her hard, which was an incredible experience in and of itself. There was an amazing freedom in being able to love someone with that sense of abandon. Ultimately, that experience was unsustainable, but I am massively grateful for the learning that occurred as a result.
Falling in love, once one has swallowed the red pill, is a high-wire act in which balance and grace under tension are the mandatory ingredients.

Jack Dublin August 24, 2011 at 4:41 pm

I’d always considered the cynical attitude to be a sort of pendulum swing to the opposite extreme, away from nice guyness. It can take some time to properly calibrate and use some of the old beta traits after the girl already feels a bond. Especially since most of game theory is screaming in the back of the mind to stop being ‘nice’.

On a side note, it’s interesting that so many women have ‘lists’ of required traits a potential mate needs; yet men with game who have a list consisting of ‘good looking’ and ‘not a bitch’ can afford to be much more discerning.
Like the difference between a guy with 35 bucks and a millionaire looking at scotch.

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