AAAH: Round #2

by Frost on April 21, 2011

Welcome to Round #2 of Ask An Asshole, in which I offer advice, solicited or otherwise, to the blogospheres chick-literati.

In our last episode, I eviscerated the fairy-tale narcissism of Date Me DC author Katie, a 30-year-old barrel of sassy sarcasm who considers her failure to find love and commitment a reflection on the woeful inadequacy of Men These Days and our man-childish ways. Since the only response I got from her was a confused email implying that quoting and linking to her blog was in violation of her copyright, I don’t think I got through.

But, young women of the world, that doesn’t mean YOU can’t learn from Katie’s experience. Says Bismarck: “Only a fool learns from his own mistakes. The wise man learns from the mistakes of others.” And it’s true. The world’s fools are not just entertaining and good for our self-esteem. They’re full of teachable moments.

So ladies. Spend a few hours perusing Date Me DC. Soak in the bitterness. Note Katie’s fear, poorly masked by a faux-hard exterior, that her ability to win male attention is in rapid decline. Do you aspire to be Katie in five or ten years? No? Then learn from her example, and use her footprints to guide you away from at least one false path.

Today’s Ask An Asshole reaches out to another target student. Using the magic of the blogosphere, we’re going to travel backwards in time, and read a post written by Katie’s younger self. We’re going to visit the Ghost of Cougar’s Past.

Lilly, who some of you may remember from our first post in this series, recently wrote:

“Some Girls Are Too Nice

…it seems like a lot of women are just not honest enough about what they like and don’t like, or are afraid to hurt a man’s feelings, or don’t take a second to honestly ask themselves if they are interested in him (i.e. too nice)…

…I think I surprised and offended several males with my last post, in which I described how I (politely) rejected a guy on a first date because there was no chemistry and he wasn’t what I was looking for. It’s shocking to a lot of men because they are used to having it the other way around.

And just because the man bought me dinner didn’t mean he bought rights to my feelings. Sadly, I think a lot of men think this is the way it should be (or the way they wish it would be). No, I’m not going to like you because you bought me dinner. Nor will I put out, give you any sort of “job,” pick you up from the airport at 5am (a girlfriend of mine was asked this by a guy she just met) or anything of the sort….

…Anyway, ladies, I’m just tired of women not thinking enough about themselves and spending all their energy focusing on “him.” I wish more women would stop worrying so much about him and more about “her.” It works out for both men and women–you don’t waste the guy’s time and you don’t waste your own. He may feel like you’ve kicked him in the balls when you reject him, but who cares? Do what’s best for you.”

Can you not picture the jaded, cynical Date Me DC author writing this five years ago when she was twenty-six? In fact, she commented on Lilly’s post:

“I’ve discovered they don’t give a flying fuck about whether or not they’re hurting our feelings. So why should we tiptoe around hurting theirs?”

Yikes. Maybe she’s been following my testosterone-enhancing diet and lifestyle plan?

But while there are similarities between Katie and Lilly’s attitudes, here’s the key difference: Lilly’s cynicism has only started to bud, while Katie’s is in its full-blown malignant reproductive phase. Cheesy though it sounds, I think there’s still time for the former to save herself from the latter’s fate.

Ladies, do you know what men really want in a girl? It is not jaded realism and a sharp, sarcastic tongue. We want soft, sweet, feminine women. We want nurturers. We want girls with a fresh, positive, happy outlook on life. We want girls who smile a lot, assume the best in everyone, and get hurt easily because they are genuinely surprised when other people are petty and mean. Maybe this sounds like an unrealistic worldview, but it’s the one we’re all born with, until experience robs it from us.

The problem with the modern dating scene is that it turns sweet, fun, good girls into authors of blogs like Date Me DC. (It also creates guys like me, but that’s a different post entirely.)

Imagine a typical girl in her mid-twenties, heading out into the grown-up world full of dreams, hope, and the idea that dating is fun, love is beautiful, and men are just regular people out there looking for a connection too. This is the kind of girl men want to date. She gets called back for second dates, third dates, fourth dates – even if she doesn’t put out. She gets a promise of exclusivity and the “girlfriend” title without having to spend a year working her way up to the top of a guy’s speed dial. She gets to meet his friends and family. Perhaps one day, she gets to be a wife and mother.

But after a half decade or more in the 21st-century urban singles scene, what will become of her? She will be older and less attractive. She will have expanded her partner count into the mid-double digits and beyond. Her expectations will have inflated to arbitrarily unrealistic proportions.

Worst of all, her disposition will have been shaped by the endless parade of bad dates, bad mini-relationships, one-night stands that she had hoped would be more, boyfriends who were actually just booty calls, rejections, heartbreaks, loneliness, and the weekly changing of cat litter. She will start viewing men with caution, dating as a chore, marriage as an inevitably cold and calculated business arrangement. As a result, she will become the girl who must all but declare that she will put out, in order to get a second date. She will not get the girlfriend title. She will not get invited to brunches, ski weekends, vacations, and summer ultimate frisbee leagues with his college friends. Her future is one of perpetual loneliness, or settling for whatever poor excuse for a man will still settle for a life with her.

Here’s Lilly’s first post, written in 2009 when she was a bright-eyed, bushy-tailed twenty-four year old:

“Once upon a time I went to this magical place called “college.” It’s kind of like Disneyland but for older kids, with keg stands and cesspools of promiscuity. As a parting gift, I was given a thin piece of paper that I was told would be my golden ticket to my dream job, personal fulfillment, and a plentiful salary. So with my goodie bag of golden tickets, false assumptions, mountains of debt and a caffeine addiction in tow, I forged into the “real world.” Which greeted me, appropriately, with a serious slap in the face.

And so is life—my life. I’m 24, live in Boston, Massachusetts (originally from Santa Fe, New Mexico), single for the first time in a long time, working at my first real job and not really loving it, but too confused—and admittedly frightened—by all of the other options that lay out there. There are a lot of things I am passionate about, and would like to do, but in the midst of trying to find my true loves, it seems like I’ve lost sight of them all. In an effort to reclaim at least one of them (writing), and ideally carve out the others, I’m starting a blog. Wow, me writing that makes it sound even more annoying than when other people say it.

I guess my angst has to go somewhere, and since it’s not getting me a better job or a second date, I figure I will share it with the others, and hopefully learn a thing or two.”

Maybe it’s just me. But I find the tone markedly different from “Some Girls Are Just Too Nice

Was she not, once upon a time, just a little bit more down-to-earth, self-effacing, positive, good-humoured? A little fresher, a little happier?

Even if you can’t see the difference now, how do you think “A Pre-Life Crisis” is going to read if the subject matter doesn’t change over the next half-decade? Answer: Probably a lot more like Date Me DC than present-day Lilly would feel comfortable with.

So I have two pieces of advice for young women today.

First, shut off the endless yammering of pop culture and mainstream media that not only teaches self-destructive dating behaviours, but also convinces you that clothes, shoes, jewellery and toys are the keys to happiness and self-confidence. Instead, spend your money on experiences that make you a better person – classes, sports and hobbies, travel, books.

Second, take a hard look at what you really want out of your life. If part of the answer is “a family” then you need to take steps to make that a reality, and soon. Every year you wait is going to make finding a quality husband a little bit harder, and the eventual man you wind up with, a little bit shabbier. Get off the three-dates-a-week carousel, let your bar-star fade, and narrow your search to husband material.

Or, if you decide that, deep in your heart, you truly are a “Samantha” and have no aspirations to marriage and kids – there’s nothing wrong with that. Have a blast. You can find my contact info in the Freedom 101 Tab.

But for the 95% of girls who feel otherwise, life is unfortunately fraught with choices and trade-offs. You are not Carrie Bradshaw, and you can’t have her life. Your heart can only take so much, and every failed experiment in your twenties will chip off a piece of it that never grows back.

{ 31 comments… read them below or add one }

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Bobby May 7, 2011 at 5:58 pm

the next formerly mercenery old bitch too

Bobby May 7, 2011 at 5:57 pm

oh shit,

after reading all these bitches comments:

the next young woman is just going to be for splooging in their face; they don´t even deserve it in their pusses.

Bobby May 7, 2011 at 5:19 pm

oh,
hahaha

and the next young twat; it is definitely going to be all pumpin´ and then all dumpin´

Bobby May 7, 2011 at 4:59 pm

You all want to know something strange,

Lily has helped me to rationalize my feelings towards women my own age( middle). No more Mister nice guy to all these formerly mercenary old bitches that are´nt that interesting anymore.

¨Because really, why would I go on a date that sucks when I could be doing something I actually enjoy (i.e. online shopping, organizing my shoe closet and watching stupid girly movies while eating everything I can scrounge from my refrigerator and wearing sweat pants I’ve had since college).¨

She can keep the fucking online shopping shit, and shoe shit, and stupid shit; I´ll insert my likes there, And yes, i can just kick back and enjoy my evening.

Badger May 5, 2011 at 11:12 am

speculativemeasures,

“Men typically *become* jerks when females fail to get what they want from them. “Jerks” usually are really just guys who do not need (and therefore do not pander to) a woman to be happy and content.”

My analysis is shorter: women like a guy who is “in charge,” but when he no longer wants to be “in charge” of her, she has to re-frame him as a bad person to rationalize away the fact it didn’t go her way.

Most of the time I hear a young woman say a guy is a “jerk” or a “douchebag” it’s a guy she was (and usually still is) into, and it didn’t turn out the way she wanted so she has to label him as a bad guy even if he didn’t do anything wrong like pump ‘n dump or cheat on her. That she spends time and energy to think up labels for him shows he’s still under her skin while she’s not on his mind, and that’s what pisses her off.

Lisa May 1, 2011 at 8:14 pm

@Lilly,

Most men are not jerks. They are just not into you-which is why you think they act like jerks. Truthfully, there are way more nice guys than jerks, but you don’t want nice guys. You call them “charity cases”.

You are young, and the world is your oyster now. That won’t be the case when you are 35. By then, at least half of your friends will be married to the nice guys you despise. Your looks will fade, and with it your options. By 40, if you’re not married, you will be wishing to God you had given these nice guys a chance. Karma’s a bitch.

George May 2, 2011 at 5:21 am

Excellent points. But to be fair to Lilly, it won’t be half of her friends ARE married to those nice guys. Half of them will have gotten married to those nice guys. Of that half, half again will have gotten divorced from those nice guys out of boredom, but won’t have removed their hooks from the wallets.

Satanam in computatrum May 3, 2011 at 3:19 pm
Hermit May 1, 2011 at 1:31 am

” I also think the type of guy you described does exist, but for every 1 of him there are about 10 jerks.”

And inexplicably, you somehow keep ending up with the jerks. Go back and read the post as it was meant to be read, not how you wanted to see it.

Lilly May 1, 2011 at 12:59 pm

I keep dating jerks because there are more of them then there are nice men, and most men probably date more bitches than they do nice girls. It’s simple math. I.e. why dating can be difficult. I never said ALL men are jerks. In my post I just said women shouldn’t feel pressure to like someone when they don’t, and to keep an eye open for douchebags. How does that translate into me saying all men are jerks?

Lilly April 30, 2011 at 10:33 pm

I think it’s funny that so many men think I’m bitter. This is probably due to the fact that I choose to blog more about the challenges I encounter than the good experiences I have. This is my own fault I suppose, but I also don’t see how wanting a man to respect me makes me bitter. Both men and women date people all the time that don’t respect them, and a lot of people (but especially women) have a hard time recognizing it and standing up to it.

Also, @ Twenty – clearly you have never been on a date with a man. You can’t be serious that the type of man I’ve described “doesn’t even exist.” No offense, but do you live under a rock? I understand that you are probably a great guy who takes a genuine interest in the girls he dates and doesn’t expect favors for buying dinner, but that doesn’t mean all other men are like this. You’d be surprised by how many men out there expect a lot for a little. I also think the type of guy you described does exist, but for every 1 of him there are about 10 jerks.

Badger April 30, 2011 at 2:01 pm

Twenty is absolutely right – she doesn’t want the feeling of obligation that comes with a man buying her meals and things. But read her blog and she’s mad guys don’t call her back in time. So what does she want? Well, we all know the answer. She wants an alpha who will commit. Good luck with that.

I actually find SatC pretty funny, and with lots of good kernels about the SMP. I know plenty of women who watch it as entertainment and that’s it. The problem is women who think it IS reality, or a reality to aspire to. The ones who dress up to go to the premieres (ironically the ones who endlessly mock guys who dress up for Star Wars premieres).

meb701 finds a gem. First, don’t use !’s or emoticons in texts with girls. At all if you can avoid it. Second, chicks don’t like dates with betas because then they feel bad about walking away. Part of them actually WANTS the guy to be a big-time asshole so she doesn’t have to feel bad about rejecting him.

“Nice post but the problem for these women: It’s hopeless.”

The sad truth. Some women have their heads so far up their entitled arses they have Adam’s apples that are really their noses. it’s just not going to turn around for them. Only a decade of CBT could do it. Whenever I meet a really angry, bitter woman like this I just back away slowly. There’s no point in being involved in any way.

“Lily probably got jaded while reading the internet. I know I did.”

Priyanka, sorry you have lost faith in men but Lilly got jaded reaping what she’s sown from her attitude. Most guys you’ll read about on the Manosphere are just reacting to getting punked by enough Lilly-like women. They didn’t step out of the stoop and decide to regard women as a busted class. Lilly doesn’t want guys who “respect” her – she’s said that she regards guys who do so as charity cases. I won’t judge all women by her, but her type does exist.

Badger April 30, 2011 at 1:47 pm
Priyanka Chopra April 28, 2011 at 1:22 am

“She will start viewing marriage as an inevitably cold and calculated business arrangement.”

Its called ARRANGED MARRIAGE and at least half of the world still does it that way.

Lily probably got jaded while reading the internet. I know I did.

Honestly, before I came across the online manosphere, I thought 99.9% of men out there were good, honest, “nice guys” – marriage material.

I mean look at Ancalgon’s comment to her about how she’s an entitled Disney Princess just for expecting men she dates to respect her. “Respect has to be earned”… um NO… in civil society there’s a certain minimum of respect that’s expected from everyone toward everyone else. Without that, there would be no civilization. AND its the reason why so many people immigrate to the United States.

svar April 24, 2011 at 8:08 pm

“Ghost’s of Cougar’s Past”
hahaah Reminds me of Roissy when he was just Roissy not Citizen Renegade

Mike April 22, 2011 at 2:09 pm

Nice post but the problem for these women: It’s hopeless.

The Internet has changed everything. More guys are like me. I’m a culturally-created asshole.

I started off nice – genuinely, not-fake – nice guy. I care about girls’ feelings. I called when I said I would. I was intimate. I planned dates.

I got totally fucked over for it. Before the Internet, I’d have been scratching my head. Then I started reading Roissy. I go onto the online message boards and found other sources I never would have.

Now I’m an asshole. Same guy. Same good looks I had as a nice guy. Same career. Same everything. Only difference is I’m fucking callus and cold.

Why would I ever go back to the old days of calling people like Lilly and Kate back when my phone is blowing up with a never ending stream of pussy? Why are Lilly and Kate special? They are just more pussy – and pussy is fungible.

Why would I give babies to Lilly or Kate, or marry either of them? The fact that they are attracted to assholes makes them fundamentally flawed – far too flawed for my progeny.

A lot of game guys get bitter, but I’m more disillusioned and disappointed. Sometimes I get inside my head, thinking, “I can’t believe these girls let me treat them this way.”

Yet such is the nature of the modern dating game. It’s a culture-wide change, and Lilly and Kate are both part of the problem and victims of the culture.

Tschafer April 22, 2011 at 11:57 am

This girl would be a lot better if she would GET THE HELL OUT OF BOSTON and go back to New Mexico. She’s far more likely to meet the kind of guy she wants there, living in an East Coast city is only going to embitter her, the crime rate is higher, the sex ratio is awful for women, and there’s less really hot competition in the intermontane West. And if she still longs for asshole Alphas, she can always drive south from Santa Fe to Kirtland AFB – they have PILOTS there…

b-nasty April 21, 2011 at 10:02 pm

@Jim

Good job on the bench. I’ve always had the natural benefit of a decent musculature (barrel-chested), but it’s a decent fitness goal for every man to: 10 pullups, bench bodyweight a few times, full squat (just bodyweight) 30x.

I posted before about ‘Convict Conditioning’, and I promise I am not a shill, but following some of the exercises verbatim — I was doing similar before — have put me, at 31, in the best shape of my life. Essentially, pushups, pullups, bw squats, bridges, and hanging leg lifts. I have a noticeable v-shape torso, but drink too much to bring out the full 6-pack. I’m not going to forgo drinking with the guys to look like the ‘Situation’ (a repressed homosexual if I ever saw one), so I’m cool with it.

meb701 April 21, 2011 at 9:58 pm

Another early post by Lilly has this gem on a “nice guy” she went on a date with:

Normally I wouldn’t feel so bad, but he actually seems like a really nice guy. The kind of nice that almost breaks your heart. They try soo hard it’s borderline pathetic and then you feel like you’re giving to charity by going out with them, or getting your community service hours in (hey-you don’t have to dress up for community service, right?). All of his text messages are filled with !!s and emoticons and are at least 2 texts long (FYI: he left me a voicemail was like 3-4 minutes long).

You can learn about game from girls!

justadude April 25, 2011 at 12:46 pm

WOW. Every beta should have that paragraph as mandatory reading.

My Name Is Jim April 21, 2011 at 9:04 pm

I agree there’s actually a good bit to be gained from SatC by watching it the right way, if you can stomach it (and that ain’t easy sometimes). And Chris Noth is a man with great game. Trouble is that game strategy changes over time and SatC is getting dated.

By the way, today I made a milestone, I benched more than my own body weight for the first time. Not a big deal for a lot of guys I know, but I was the classic skinny guy and for me it’s an achievement. Sure feels great to bust through those barriers mental and physical. I just felt like telling a bunch of people.

Rob April 21, 2011 at 9:48 pm

Respect. That’s what’s up.

TGP April 22, 2011 at 2:20 pm

Yep. Props brother.

Ancalgon April 21, 2011 at 7:09 pm

After reading these girls’ blogs for some time, I’m not quite sure they should even be taken this seriously and analyzed. I mean, these girls seem to have some of the most powerful hamsters in existence out there (as well as some really beta male groupies – a few of the comments by beta males were extremely vomit-inducing).

These chicks are resigning themselves to a life on the cock carousel. What I would like to know is the rough percentage of chicks who think like this in the cities v/s the smaller towns in America. Clearly, living in a large city like DC or NYC seems to blow their egos through the roof.

b-nasty April 21, 2011 at 6:55 pm

F25, your posts are getting better and better. You’ve done a great job with the blog.

To the Sex-n-City comparisons…I’ve watched the series. Partially because an ex was really into it and partially because it is a valuable window into the ‘modern woman’, or at least what the modern woman desires to be. Those that want to internalize game or understand womens’ desire is doing themselves a disservice by not giving it a casual viewing. But I digress.

In the series+movies, even after marriage, one sees how an alpha male (Chris Noth’s character: ‘Big’) inevitably loses his charm after marriage. Many in the game-blogosphere have a notion that all that is necessary to avoid the dangers of marriage is a healthy dash of game–nothing could be farther from the truth. Much like accepting a lump sum to play with a cellar-dwelling team (cough, Jayson Werth), signing the marriage contract puts you at a significant disadvantage and costs you far more ‘alpha points’ than an ordinary man can recover from. Moreover, at such a disadvantage, the level of ‘alpha’ necessary to maintain the status quo is exhausting; you will slip.

The character ‘Big’ is far more alpha than most can hope to achieve: rich, powerful, handsome (I guess), tall, etc. He too falls to the hypergamy of the female mind. No sooner do they get married than Carrie (horse-faced SJP) starts romanticizing about her past ex. If a rich NYC power-broker can’t keep a nasty, old, carousel woman happy, what hope does the average guy have?

I could go on — in fact, a whole blog article could be dedicated to the show — but a large amount of truth can be found in SatS. If you read between the lines (and ignore the girl power bullshit) the hamster is in full view.

Ceer April 21, 2011 at 6:44 pm

The quote here:
[quote]
And just because the man bought me dinner didn’t mean he bought rights to my feelings. Sadly, I think a lot of men think this is the way it should be (or the way they wish it would be). No, I’m not going to like you because you bought me dinner.
[/quote]
Is describing a date that occurred between a man and a woman with the man playing up comfort. This is fine. It’s what most good girls need. Here’s the catch…modern American women DEMAND attraction first. The man MUST find her attraction buttons, press them, and only THEN can he move on to comfort. No one tells men this.

My Name Is Jim April 21, 2011 at 11:29 pm
Twenty April 21, 2011 at 6:12 pm

No long, drawn-out abuse directed at this one, just a quick analysis:

I think that Lilly here demonstrates the female desire to be free of romantic advances from Beta males, as described by a rationalization hamster. This strikes me as the money graf:

And just because the man bought me dinner didn’t mean he bought rights to my feelings. Sadly, I think a lot of men think this is the way it should be (or the way they wish it would be). No, I’m not going to like you because you bought me dinner. Nor will I put out, give you any sort of “job,” pick you up from the airport at 5am (a girlfriend of mine was asked this by a guy she just met) or anything of the sort…

While I’m sure that you could find one example, somewhere, of a man who thinks this way, such men are far from common and I seriously doubt that Lilly’s ever met one. Any man who’s dated a day in his life knows that buying a girl dinner doesn’t entitle him to anything. Supplicating Betas know it because they put the pussy on a pedestal, and Alphas know it because they understand female psychology and recognize a bad strategy when they see one. So Lilly’s complaining about something that effectively doesn’t exist in nature.

What does exist, however, are men who express romantic interest in the women they date. (Above and beyond the interest expressed in asking them out and buying them shit, of course, to which dear Lilly voices no objection.) And when those men are Beta, Lilly finds such interest unforgivably icky. What she really means is that Betas should not feel entitled to express any interest that the woman finds disagreeable, and that women should feel free to demand such consideration from their suitors. (Expressions of interest from Alphas, or veiled expressions of interest in the form of plausibly-platonic attention and free shit from Betas are, of course, welcome.)

P.S. Mr. 5:00am airport sounds like a compliance-testing Alpha.

Rob April 21, 2011 at 4:53 pm

“We want girls with a fresh, positive, happy outlook on life. We want girls who smile a lot, assume the best in everyone, and get hurt easily because they are genuinely surprised when other people are petty and mean.”

People with that outlook are either retarded or heavily medicated. Still, as an ideal, the description works.

crunchie September 9, 2012 at 11:37 pm

Melanie from gone with the wind comes to mind as a none retard example.

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